Women in Energy 2021

– Hello, everyone. Welcome. My name is Stacy Peterson, and I’m the Assistant Director of Student and Alumni Engagement at Duke University’s Energy Initiative. I also have the honor ofmoderating this evening’s event. Thank you for joining. The Energy Initiative isDuke’s interdisciplinary hub for advancing an accessible,affordable, reliable, and clean energy system. The initiative reaches across to schools and departments to educatetomorrow’s energy innovators, to develop new solutions through research, and to improve energy decisions by engaging businessand government leaders.This event is co-sponsored by the Fuqua School ofBusiness’s Center for Energy, Development and theGlobal Environment, EDGE, and I want to thank them for their support andpartnership on this annual event, and now I’d like tointroduce today’s panelists, all of whom we are also fortunate to be able to say are Duke alumni. First, I want to introduce Sara Bogdan. Sara is the Head of Sustainability and ESG at JetBlue Airways. Second, I have Manisha Shah, the founder of EmStar Consulting, Elizabeth Liedel Turnbull, the Senior Product Developer, Transportation, Electrification, at Portland General Electric, and finally, Dr.Tiffany Wilson, a data scientist at CleanChoice Energy. Thank you all for joining us today. We’re very excited to hear from you and to have you hereacross various time zones. So I’d like to get us started with just an introduction. Would each of you pleasespend a few minutes telling us your story? Starting from your undergraduate degree, what path led you to your current role, and what do you do in your current role? Sara, we’ll get started with you. – Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, andhopefully you can hear me okay. Again, I am Sara Bogdan. I currently head up sustainabilityand ESG for JetBlue, an airline and travel company.We have two subsidiaries Ican tell you about later, based out of New York city, and I am an MEM alumna fromalready six years ago from 2015. So, starting with my background, I actually sometimesreflect back on my career and marvel at how I endedup in the aviation industry, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I started in the field as a researcher of climate change impacts. So I did my undergrad at UC Berkeley, was working over at Stanford’sEnvironmental Institute, studying how wildlife isimpacted by a warming climate, and had two takeaways.I think two of them being, one, that continuously studying aproblem wasn’t really for me. I really wanted to bea part of the solution, and two, that there wasthis massive divide between what the academic communitywas saying about climate change and what my peers and, youknow, the public understood, and I think it’s gottena little bit better, but I went to go pursuethis second interest of mine around science and climate communication after I graduated from undergrad and spent two years inscience research publishing for a nonprofit open-access publisher.For anyone who ispublished, it’s called PLOS, the Public Library of Science. I thought it was awesomebecause it really spoke to breaking down the barriersbetween the public and legitimate, peer-reviewed, credible scientific information. After about two years, though, on the editorial team, I thought, okay, I gotta get back toenvironmental and climate staff, and at that point, Ihad a pretty good sense I wanted to do sustainability, specifically for a business,but I wasn’t prepared.So I swear this isn’t a salespitch for going to Duke, since you all are mostly already there, but at that point, applied to Duke and did my two year programand pretty quickly fell into, I was working forprofessor Dr. Jay Golden, who I believe doesn’t work there anymore, but continuing this great work elsewhere, and so I fell into acool community of folks who were studyingcorporate sustainability. So, how do you find that overlap between environmental benefitsand business benefits? And spent basically my, I started in 2014. So, in between my first and second year, as an intern at JetBlue, which, you know, if you want to talk aboutfinding jobs and internships, I just applied online,didn’t even know anybody.So, I was fortunate enoughto get the opportunity to have the interview and get selected, and then from the minute I started there, I kind of never stopped. I started doing my master’sthesis, my master’s project, I guess, as they’re called, with JetBlue, and then also did my final semester. My final semester, wrappingup the MEM program, and also working full-time in New York, but it helps that I was ableto fly back and forth for free, and I actually have alittle blip in my career where I left JetBlue and then came back, but I went and moved out toCalifornia where I’m from and led a sustainability program for a system of hospitals,basically UCLA Health, and actually loved the work that I did.I found that it was very, very similar to sustainability in an airport setting. Hospitals and airports are very similar, and then, of course, now I never thought all the work around infectioncontrol and balancing, you know, energy use inPPE would be so relevant. Unfortunately, that’s the reality today, dealing with COVID and airports, but I came back to JetBluein 2018 and as a manager, and then at some point, wecan go into the long story, but essentially my predecessor who had been leading the team left the organization last summer, and so since then, I’vebeen leading the team, and was formally promotedat the end of last year. Was I supposed to talk aboutwhat I do at JetBlue also? – [Stacy] Yes, please. – Okay, I’d love to. Great, answering thequestion for our panelists. So, with that, so what I do, so heading up sustainability and ESG, I suppose I’ll kind of draw the line between sustainability versus ESG, and for those of you who are maybe less familiar with what that means, in a business setting, I think the way I like to describe it is a sustainability program ismore of the conventional way that a business thinksabout the environment, and really, it asks the question, what is the business’s impact on the environment andthe communities around us? You could think ofarrows going out, right? By JetBlue operating, whatis the impact that we have? How many emissions do we produce? The waste that wegenerate, even stuff like how many playgrounds do we build, and, you know, trees we plant.Essentially, the impactthat we have by operating. On the flip side, ESG asks the question, what is the environment’sand the communities around us impact on the business? So, what are these mega trends across environmental and social issues that the organization did not cause, like climate change,systemic racism, immigration? How do these mega trendsimpact the business? And how do I as JetBlue think about, how do I manage these risks and find opportunities at the same time? And often we talk aboutESG in the investor lens, because they are probably the most focused on a business’s risk, but it’s been a really, really great tool to think about business resiliency, which has obviously been putto the test in the last year, and so I’ll wrap it up, but when I think about the workthat I do in sustainability, that’s kind of my operational work.So, things like rolling out electric vehicles at our airports, bringing sustainable aviation fuels to our aircraft, fuel efficiency projects. Really, just this hyper-focus on decarbonization for obvious reasons, and then on the ESG side is really weighing and surveying risks and then responding to them appropriately and building it into thedecision-making mechanisms across the organization from the top. I also operate a committeespecifically on ESG within our board. So, making sure that that isfully integrated throughout, and I’ll pause there.- Awesome. Thank you so much, Sara. Going in the order in which we started, Manisha, would you shareyour story with us next? – Sure. Can everyone hear me okay? All right. Well, thanks for having me. This is a great panel, and, I think one of the things I’mgoing to love about this is sort of the different varietyof energy-related roles that are represented on the panel. I am a business consultant, a general management consultant, and it wasn’t sort of a straight line path to either energy or consulting. So, I did my undergraduate work in politics and economics at Wake Forest, and then went on to Duke todo my masters of public policy many, many years ago, way before many of the otherpanelists on here today, and ended up in consulting. I started out doingpublic sector consulting. So, I didn’t focus on energy specifically back when I was in school, and from public sector consulting, sort of went for a whileinto financial services, insurance-related consulting, and then probably for the last decade, a little over a decade,I focused on energy, and probably the common thread tying sort of my career together was my interest in public policy and private sector solutions, and, you know, and sort of theindustries that I focused on, most lately, obviouslyenergy has related to just the fact that I work either with regulated or quasi-regulated entities, and you’re sort of balancingthe regulatory aspects, the drivers of public policythat they have to work with, and combine that with, you know, sort of their investor faceand their investor motives.So, I work largely in growth strategy, regulatory strategywith the energy sector, and now increasinglynewer business models, as we talk about renewables and technology and disruptive forces inthe energy transition. – Awesome. Thank you so much, Manisha. Elizabeth, you’re next. – Great. So, hi, everyone. I’m Elizabeth Turnbull, and my career path hasbeen a little meandering, as I think all panelists onthis kind of thing always say. Everybody says, “Well,here’s the way I did it, but I went all over, and if you really wantedto get from A to B quickly, you would have done it this way,” and it’s like, but youdidn’t do it that way. So, it’s okay to meander. So, I attended SmithCollege for undergrad, which is a women’s college, which I think is probably foundational to how I see women in the workforce and some of the friendshipsand relationships that I have. I majored in philosophy whichwas a thing that you could do back in 2004 and still find a job.Not that I wouldn’t recommendphilosophy to anyone today. I then did some stints in environmental and outdoor education. I had grown up going to camp, and was really outdoorsyand loved doing that, and then I landed innonprofit fundraising. I saw a lot of inefficienciesin the nonprofit world, and actually came to Fuqua because I thought I wanted to get an MBA and wanted to really, you know, bring those businessskillsets to nonprofits, and the more I got into it,the more I realized that the issues that were most important to me were environmental issues. So, I applied to the Nicholas School halfway through my MBAand added the MEM degree, and at that time, I was really interested in corporate sustainability, and I was also interested inmoving back home to Portland, which is where I grew up. So, I took an internship one summer, actually working here inPortland on electric vehicles. This was in December of 2010, and it was right beforethe Nissan LEAF came out. There was a lot of energy around, you know, it was Obama administration.A lot of energy around federal funding, and, you know, what can we do to be procuring communitiesfor electric vehicles? And that was really interesting to me. I did my master’s project on the EV stuff, and there weren’t any jobsin that when I graduated, and so I landed atPacific Gas and Electric where I took a job incorporate sustainability. So that was also an interest, and, you know, I spenta couple of years there and learned a lot about the business, but always sort of followedthis electric vehicle thing, and by the time PG andE was building up a team to sort of look at electric vehicles and offerings for customers, I was able to jump over to that team, and then a few years after that, you know, I was still trying to makemy way back to Portland and saw a job at PGE,Portland General Electric, a different company, a very different company in a lot of ways, but also a regulated utility, and so my family and I moved up here and here’s where I am today.And so I’m in product development for transportation electrification. What I do is take a look at, what are the solutions thatour customers are looking for, whether those are residential customers or business customers, fleet customers, anyone who wants easy charging, and I do a lot ofinterfacing with customers and with external stakeholders to try to developofferings for our customers that we can get regulatoryapproval to offer. It’s a lot of work withinternal departments, because I need to makesure that I’ve got finance and IT and our sales teams, and I don’t know, every, it seems like every department at PGE, and it’s a lot of work alsowith our regulators directly, and then there’s a lot of workwith market players as well.So, as we think about developingproducts and programs, whether that’s a rebateor something, you know, for a charging station,well, we have to come up with a qualified list of whichchargers are eligible for that, and so I do a lot of work with sort of players in the market as well. So, that’s sort of the day to day.I am not really a carperson, but I’m an EV person, and if it goes, I want to electrify it. So, that’s me. – Awesome. Thank you. Tiffany? – Hi, everyone. I’m Tiffany Wilson. I am currently a data scientistat CleanChoice Energy. I’m relatively new to the energy space. I’ve only been at CleanChoicefor about six months but the relationships between human use of natural resources and climate have been kind of a thread throughout my education and career. So, it’s natural that Iended up at this point. I did my undergraduate work at Princeton in civil and environmental engineering, focusing on hydrology. and after that, I workeddoing design engineering and consulting formunicipal water utilities. At the time I was in Florida,there was a big drought.So we’re dealing with, you know,how do we make the best use out of the water resources that we have? How do we not drain ouraquifers, et cetera? And while there, I enjoyed the work, but I realized the people who are doing the really cool stuff all have PhDs. So I decided to apply toDuke again in, excuse me, civil and environmental engineering. I loved my time at Duke.Obviously, learned a lot, met a lot of reallycool people, and again, focused on hydrology and the effects that changes in climate have on the cycle of vegetation and water. Again, really enjoyed the research, continued on to do a post-doc at the US Department of Agriculture, looking at vineyards and how to use waterefficiently in vineyards, so you can produce high quality grapes with using less water, and I really enjoyed the workI was doing there as well, but I was kind of, it was a bit of an economic play for me. The pay was not great as apost-doc living in Washington DC. So when an opportunity came up for me to transition into datascience, I took the opportunity. It was a career I was looking at anyway. So, I ended up at a travel startup where we were trying todisrupt the travel space by making it easier for people to buy travel for business trips. I really enjoyed that opportunity. You know, it allowed me to getinto the data science space and learn a lot about technology that I hadn’t learnedpreviously, but of course, when COVID hit last year, we lost about 95% of our travel volume, and things went when southa bit at the company.So, I started lookingfor other opportunities, and that’s when I cameacross the opportunity at CleanChoice, which made mehappy for a number of reasons. One is that I got to return to a space where I was having a positiveimpact on the environment. So, what we do at CleanChoice is we are a retail energy supplier in states that have a deregulated market, meaning that you don’t have to just get your energy suppliedby your main utility. You can choose whosupplies your electricity. So we allow a 100% renewable energy source for people who choose to do that.I work primarily on ourdigital acquisition. So, working on bringing in customers through AB testing on our website, changes in how we do our email campaigns, and really what it boils down to is how do we make it easy to getthe largest number of people with clean energy as possible? And that’s kind of what getsme out of bed every day, and I really enjoy thework that I’m doing, and I’m excited to be here and share a bit more with all of you. – Thank you so much. I love the common threadof meandering paths, and I love the common thread of, well, maybe not common thread, but the idea that you all havesuch different experiences and timelines to share with our group, which I think a lot of peoplewill really appreciate.So, thank you for that. So, just to get started onsome of the other questions that I have here, we don’t have to go inany particular order. You guys can feel freeto answer the questions as you feel compelled to do so, but the first one that I want to ask is what did you find mostexciting and rewarding about working in the energy sector? And again, anyone can start. – I’ll jump in. For me, the most exciting part is working on a collective impact.You know, something smallthat individuals can do that as a whole have a positiveimpact on the environment. Something that people oftenfeel, they feel frustration. Like, I’m just one person andhow can I make a difference? But it’s really excitingfor me to push forward with the idea that youcan take a small action that makes a big differenceif we all take that action, and that’s what I find the most exciting. – So, for me, it is, I think what I said a littlebit in my introduction, you know, the energy industry in the US, in North America, is pretty incredible. There’s a very mature infrastructure that has served the continent really well over, you know, the last century, really supported the wayour economy has grown, and today with the various climate change and the new technologiesthat have come in, I’ve watched sort of theevolution of the smart grid. I’ve watched, you know, theevolution of different fossils, fossil fuels, and onto renewable energy in the course of the industry. It’s a very, very challenging thing, from a business perspective,to take a mature industry and point it towards thechallenges of the future, and the interesting thingabout the energy industry is, while it is mature, it is something thatis absolutely critical and essential to everyone’s lives, and anyone who didn’t thinkso only had to look at what happened in Texasa couple of weeks ago to know not only, you know, howcritical it is to our lives, how important it is goingto be going forward.I mean, just again, talking about the panelistson here, you know, Elizabeth’s drive for EVs isonly going to make, you know, electricity that muchmore important to us. Tiffany’s work in the water sector. You know that there’sthe water and power nexus that is critical to the country’s economy, and Sara’s work in fuels, and then ESG, you know, aligns with that. So, within consulting, you know, by virtue of being a business consultant, I had the opportunity to work with all of those types of stakeholders, to the energy industry and stakeholders that have an interest inclimate change and the industry. So, to anybody who thinks that this is not an exciting sector to be in, it’s something that sort of hits the front page of thejournal every other day, and is absolutely critical to our lives, and it’s an industrythat is very, you know, is changing fairly dramatically. So, that’s exciting to me. – I think Manisha is beingvery kind when we say mature. We don’t normally mean aging,but I think we do have, when we say matureinfrastructure, you know, it’s aging infrastructure, and, you know, the way we talk about transportationelectrification at PGE is this represents the biggest change to the electric grid in a century, and that’s really intense for people who have been in thisindustry for a century.I think, as we think aboutthe imperatives we have to address the climate crisis and electrify as much as we can, and then decarbonize as much as we can, that, to me, is, you know, energy is essential, because it’s in our lives every day, but it’s also thischallenge is existential, and so that is what getsme up in the morning, and driving towards, youknow, what can we do today? What more can we do? What vehicles can I get on the road? What vehicles can I get off the road? And at the same time, Ithink there’s, you know, at least with the utility industry, there are shifting customer expectations.There are new competitors, right? Like, the work that Tiffany is doing is a competitive threat to utilities, which is fine, go for it, but there’s also, you know,new technology in this space, and so there’s just a lot going on, and I think more and more, we’re seeing that figuringit out is critical, and I think we have a lotof the pieces out there, but actually fitting them all together and making sure that it works in practice and not just in pilots is sortof the next frontier here. – Thanks. I think I’m the last one. I echo what everybody said. I’ll build on some of thethemes and I’ll note this. I think, at first, when Iwas invited to the panel, I felt a bit like an imposter in working in the energy industry. You know, I sort of think ofmyself in the aviation sector, of course, touching sustainability, and I think kind of two points.One, as this is obviously womenbeing awesome in industries that tend to be male dominated, that’s absolutely the case in aviation, and something that weare working to address, and then two, I also, you know, have obviously come to realize I work very closely withsustainable aviation fuels and the renewable fuels space, and talking to a lot of oil companies, who we give a lot of moneyto, JetBlue pre-pandemic was only about 5% or 6% of the US flight. You know, the flights, essentially, compared to all of the airlines, but we still had a $2billion a year fuel budget, and so you look at some ofthe bigger, bigger carriers, that’s a lot of money we spendand a lot of purchasing power and it’s a little bitdown obviously right now, but I think what’s really exciting is I’m drawn to industries thathave a big impact, of course, because there is big opportunity, and right now, it truly feels like we’re at this boiling point.You know, having beenin the aviation space for the last seven years, watching, I think people being betterat talking about things, just the level of focus that I see in my own senior leadership, who I’m meeting with on a weekly basis, because this issue keeps coming up from, you know, policy makers. Our investors are now always asking us, it’s like, how is your revenue? How are you going to decarbonize? And then what’s yourworkforce diversity plan? So it’s amazing to be at this level, and so I see all this change, and I love that JetBlue and the other airlines that I work with, that we can act as reallyas a demand signal, and so we just started flying on sustainable aviation fuelslast year, which is great, and we are, in the background, and I know my competitors are as well, looking to get whatever we can.I could talk for way too long about the supply andcost issue that we have, but we see this significantly growing. We see more fuel coming online, and it’s really exciting tohelp pave that de-carbonization for our industry that really needs it. – Thank you, Sara. Thank you, all of our panelists. That was really, really helpful feedback, and just, again, a reallynice variety of reasons that this industry is so impactful. So, one thing, you know, that we definitely want toaddress in this panel today is gender diversity in the energy industry. So, are there things thatyou think the industry can do or maybe is already doing well to encourage more women to work in and be supported by the industry? And also, do you have any thoughts about what role male allies can play? – You know, I think I’ll go first.I mean, again, I’ve watchedthis industry evolve over a couple of decades, and both from a consulting perspective as well as from an energy perspective, and neither one of which has had a lot of women participation, female participation, even, and particularly at thesenior levels, right? And it continues to be the case. I mean, a lot of energy is still dominated in the early portions of therecruiting pipeline by men. There’s not as many women. I think we’re still underrepresentedin the energy industry. I do know in utilitiesthat I work with a lot, you are starting to seemen continue to stay, so you know, one of theheartening things for me, as my career has progressed, which progressed as apartner in a consulting firm, as a managing director atan investment banking firm, neither one of which had immense numbers of women participating, you know, among my peers, that it is heartening nowto start to at least see that a little bit of change in my clients and seeing women indecision-making positions, women who are starting tomove up into the C-suite, a lot in the CFO roles andoperator roles in utilities, and, you know, so that is ahuge step forward, I think, for the industry, and interms of what they can do, I think it has to continueto be targeted recruiting.I mean, the industryis still, I would say, not as progressive as others, in terms of the environment for women. So, you know, there’sprobably a whole host of work that has to be done interms of what conversations take place among colleagues. How you support women inthe workplace, you know, as families and careers come together, and the work-life balancehas to be addressed, and, you know, and I do think, though, that a lot of the workwill come from the women that have started to becomemore and more prevalent in middle and senior management, to start to change the dialogue, because some of the awareness just doesn’t exist inthe industry, you know, from what I’ve observed. That’s the part about the male allies, so. – Yeah, I think all of that’s really true. You know, I’ll say that, in the time that I worked at at PG and E, and also now in the timethat I’ve worked at PGE, or, you know, and slightlybefore, both those companies, increased their policiesaround work flexibility, increased their PTO packages, and established parental leave policies that they hadn’t had prior.So, you know, justlooking back at, you know, nine years or a decadein the utility industry, we’re seeing some ofthose things changing, and those things are important to women, and, you know, I looked at sort of a PTO policy at one point, and my conclusion was thiswas written for men, who, if they are parents, havewives who stay at home, and I would love that. My husband and I talk all the time about how much we desperatelyneed a wife, but… – I would agree. I do.(laughing) – We should all get wives, but no, but I think that that is shifting and that’s really important, and, you know, there are acouple instances I can think of of men who, either vocally or not, have been really strongallies in some of this, and a lot of these examplesfor me are around parenting.There are a lot. There are tons of examples that are not around parenting as well, but that’s sort of more present for me in the last couple of years. But a couple of yearsago, I worked for a guy who had a young kid, and I had a young kid,and his wife also worked, and in a higher power job than he did, and like, the way theypartnered to support their kid and support their familywas amazing to me, and when I, you know, also in a home where both of us work fulltime and have children, like, he got it all the time in a way that had his wife not work.It wasn’t about thefact that he had a kid. It was that his wife also worked that was kind of thekey to him getting it, and then another example,just from the other day, I’m actually moving overto a new team at PGE and have a new managerwho’s come in externally, and a bunch of us weresitting down with him, and one of my colleagues,who’s a newish parent, had his six month old onthe phone with him on video, and it was awesome to me, as the only woman on that team so far, that I didn’t have to bethe first one to do that.My colleague Joe actuallywas the one who did that, and I don’t even know if he realizes. I mean, he didn’t do itfor me, but I don’t know if he realizes how much space that creates for me to be flexible around, “I can’t be there until 9:15. I’m dropping kids off atdaycare,” or whatever it is. – I’ll go next. I guess in the contextof aviation, you know, I mentioned definitely certain roles are very one gender oriented, and when you look across the organization, ’cause we’ve looked at our metrics, we’re actually a pretty evensplit in terms of, you know, 50-50 in terms of gender, butthen there’s a few themes.I think, one, when you lookat our senior leadership, you see a drop-off in women. It gets to about 32% of women, and then when you look at our pilots, I don’t even know the numbers, but they’re more horrifying than that. Not shocking to anybody, buta male-dominated industry, and so I think in the last year that a lot of companieshave been confronting these uncomfortable conversations, essentially, or having theuncomfortable conversations is the key piece. I do think that through theBlack Lives Matter movement, we’ve had a number of discussions around diversity of all sorts,including gender diversity. How do we really analyze the behaviors and the preconceived notions that we have? How do we break this down? I do see a very meaningfulshift, at least within my company and from the people I talk to, I do think this is a persisting thing.It wasn’t like people sentout a tweet last summer and we called it a day, and so through that as an example, I mean, JetBlue has set our own target to at least get to 35% for ourwomen in leadership by 2025, which is hard when we are not hiring a lot of people at the moment, but I mean, we’ve reallybroken down our process. I think, again, the meat of it is having uncomfortable conversations. There are things that Ithink we might not realize, and so that’s been really helpful for us. I think, also, I’m done, I’m done. – I don’t have a whole lot to add on top of what the otherpanelists have already said, but I will make a note about male allies.I don’t think they often realize that they can be gatekeepers, who can bring other women in, if they just kind of think about like, “Oh, this is a male dominated industry.” I should make the effort to instead of, “Oh, let me get my buddy from school.” Like, “Oh, let’s thinkabout bringing women in, who maybe are put off by the fact that this wholedata science team is men,” which is a position thatI was previously in. So, I would encourage menin the process of hiring, whether that’s, you know, entry level, all the way up through promoting, to just always take thatextra step, to think, like, am I being an ally by allowingwomen in when it’s possible instead of just hiringpeople who are like me? – I just want to add onething to all of that, which is just to note that all of that takes on a different lens when you’re talking about women of color, and that, you know, as much as I feel like I canspeak to women in the workplace and things like that, as a white woman, I don’t have thatintersectional perspective, where my intersection is with being white, and so that makes it different, and so I just want to note that because I think that’san important thing too that not all women in theworkplace are treated the same.- You know, sort of justreinforcing that, Elizabeth, you know, I, obviously, again,spent a lot of my career being not only the only woman, but often the only minorityin a room full of people, and, you know, I think animportant thing for folks who are out there and, you know, listening to the panel today, one, I’d say things have changed. It’s not that they aren’t changing. They are. You know, things are improving. There’s a long way to go,but there is a path to it. The second I would say is that, you know, there is a very distinctdifference in the way women and men interfacein the corporate workplace and the way they build relationships, and there is, certainlyin high-power positions, there is this tendency for a man, and let’s face it, aCaucasian man to be heard, you know, when you might’vesaid the same thing, and that has absolutely happened.I’ve been the only in the room. I’ve heard it happen, andI’ve seen it happen to myself, over and over again. That being said, you know, as people get more and more aware of it, that is certainlysomething that, you know, we can all work to change, right? The way we communicate, but also the way ourcolleagues communicate, and I’d say, for me, it’s beenboth colleagues and clients over the years that hasmade the difference, and, you know, I do both, right? As I’m an energy expert, but I also spend a fair amount of time developing business and developing relationshipswith very, very senior people in the energy industry.So, there’s a lot in therein the way relationships are managed, and, you know, how those interactions affect things, and when, you know, if I feel that a man talks over me as awoman, I am sorry to say, but men also then tend totalk over you, you know, twice over as a minority woman. So, there’s definitely, you know, that gap that has to be worked on. That’s my experience, andagain, it’s improving. So I would say that it’s allsort of horrible out there, but it is improving, butit’s definitely something that has to be worked on.- Sara, Tiffany, anythingelse to add before we move on? No? Okay, so just a couple ofquestions about, you know, your role, your job. I think it’s important to kindof highlight the diversity that there is in job skills, and, you know, backgrounds and things like that that are required and expectedin the energy industry. So, could you talk a little bit about the kinds of skills that aremost important in your job? Quantitative financial modeling,analysis, people skills, communication, stakeholders,subject matter expertise, where would you slide your experience? – All of that.- Yeah.- All of the above. – All of the above. So, you know, just brieflyfrom a consulting perspective, you typically start your career and focus more on the quantitative skills, and you tend to layer in the interpersonal and the subject matter expertise as you get more senior in your career, and certainly you need, youknow, the interpersonal, and the subject matterexpertise to sort of continue to succeed andremain at, you know, the senior tiers in theconsulting industry.So, but you know, you can’t get there without having worked throughthe quantitative stuff and the analytical stuffearlier in your career and having that as a base. Sorry, Elizabeth, go ahead. – No, no. I mean, I think it’s great that we have such similar answers. I mean, I think, youknow, it’s interesting. I do think I use my philosophydegree a lot in this job, because a lot of this isabout, you know, for me, it’s about working out, what’s the right program, and then it’s about pitching it, right? It’s about pitching it internally. It’s about pitching itto external stakeholders. It’s about pitching it to regulators. It might be about framingit, you know, okay, this is a new and different thing, but here’s how it’s like the things that we’ve talked about and done before. Here’s how we’re thinking about it, and that framing is so critical, and a lot of that, I think, comes from from that philosophy degree and not a small amount of inner collegiate debate experience.You know, financial modeling. I do a little bit less of that. I have my colleague in financewho does that for our team, but, you know, I need to understand the model through and through. I need to understand how it’soperating, what it’s doing, what tweaking it is going to result in, and then two other thingsthat came to my mind that weren’t on your list,Stacy, or first of all, and I found this in corporatesustainability as well, an ability to balance betweenambition and incrementalism and finding that right balance between how far can we push this today? Versus can we take some smallsteps, get some small wins, and then build on them in the future? And then lastly, and Ithink this is so important in the energy space, is equity issues, and that’s particularlyimportant for us as a utility.You know, energy is not anoptional cost to households, and so, you know, when wethink about that, you know, how much are we going todrive up rates if we do X, Y, and Z incentives? And how do we think abouttransportation electrification, particularly with that equity lens, so that it’s not alljust about Tesla drivers, but it’s also about micro mobility? It’s about transit electrification. It’s about school bus electrification. It’s about fleet electrification to reduce air pollutionin impacted communities. So, there’s a lot around that that I think is important tosort of have a grounding in. – As a data scientist, obviously, the vast majority of my jobis based on analytical skill. However, the interpersonal skills, the ability to communicateresults clearly, to frame a problem, makegood recommendations.All of those soft skills arereally what drives forward your career in data science. You know, plenty ofpeople are smart enough to do the actual analysiswork, but it is a lot harder to be able to work withpeople on various teams to get information that you need or to convey your results, and so the soft skillsare equally as important, and kind of parallel to whatElizabeth just mentioned about incremental drive. It’s important to keep thosethings in mind as well. Like, we may run a test that improves ourconversion rates by 2%, 3%. Like, those are really small, but you have to keep in mindthat, over time, those add up, and they’re all building towards our overall goal of asustainable energy future. So, keeping the big goal in mind while you’re making smallimprovements is really important, – And my perspective fromcorporate sustainability, I would say what’s most importantis just being really good at the art of getting things done.Ultimately, you know, my job and others whohave similar jobs, like, our job is to affect change, which any normal person pushes back when somebody is telling themto do things differently, especially in aviation. A lot of folks love the industry so much that they’re there for their whole lives, and so when some young ladycomes in and tells them, “You’re actually going to taxithat aircraft differently, because it’s going to save fuel.” I think most people, I thinkwho are good at their jobs, should push back and have at least some degreeof skepticism, you know, making sure that everything is safe and well thought through, but you also have to, you know, push back and get to a point whereyou come in armed with data.You point to the otherairlines who are doing it, and you’re saying youunderstand what they’re saying, but this is, you know, the technology has changed since you tried this 10years ago, et cetera, and more than I like, it does come down to personality is a really key part. You have to strike this balance of being trusted and likable, but also perceived as competent and knowing what you’re talking about, and then ultimately get tothis place of partnership where you are advancingeach other’s goals.When I think about my time at JetBlue at the analyst manager level, probably more of it wasthe technical analysis, and a lot of time in Excel,not doing anything too crazy. I was not a data scientist myself, and in operations, because, you know, as working for an airline, I obviously spend a lotof time out on the ramp. So, literally out with the aircraft, talking to crew members, andso, you know, couldn’t be shy.I had to go bounding up to people, being like, “What did you thinkabout this electric vehicle? Tell me how it could be different.” So, I’d say that’s a big part of it, and the role that I’m in now,it’s a lot more of, again, the getting things done,and then knowing the stuff. I get a lot of, you know, requests from my senior leaders, or I’m on a call and they’re like, “Sara, what’s your perspective on this? What does this mean?” So, that’s become really important, and then also just being ableto work at the speed of light and balance 25 projects, because you have to keeppushing on everything, knowing that not everythingwill materialize, but enough of them will. – Stacy, if I could, you know, I think, Sara, Elizabeth, and Tiffanyall touched on it, right? Which is actually negotiation, and the art of compromise. Balance and compromise is that’s actually the wayprogress happens, ultimately, in the corporate sphere. I mean, I think to a large extent, even in in the policy sphere, right? And that, you know, learning to navigatethat to move forward is sort of a very critical skillfor professional satisfaction, if you’re really passionate about energy.- Awesome. Thank you all. So, there’s a lot of really good questions coming in from the audience, and so we’ll get to a few of those now. So, I think, let’s start witha male ally related question coming from a male undergraduate, who’s helping to run anenergy related campus org. So, what are examples ofsupport, resources, and actions that I can actively doto bring more women in at this early stage? – This is a tough one for me, because as I think aboutmy undergrad experience, there weren’t there men. So, you know, I would say, you know, keeping these issues top of mind. If you’re bringing in speakers, make sure there’s agood balance, you know, of men, of women, of whitefolks and people of color. You know, that it’s not justall gravitating towards, the people who are like you, you know? I don’t know if that means, you know, developing relationships withwomen’s organizations at Duke and making sure that they’reaware that you’re out there and that there are opportunities.You know, sitting downwith prospective members or prospective leaders,members of your organization, or, you know, saying to women, “I think you should run for vice president of thisorganization next year. I think you should run for president.” “I think you should,” you know, handing those opportunitiesand encouraging, because I think sometimes, women negotiate with ourselves first, and I’m as guilty of it as anyone, perhaps guiltier, but that’snot where we should be, and so encouraging people to step up and to take leadership and then supporting them when they do. – Thank you. You did a really greatjob on that, Elizabeth.So, let’s go into an industrymore technical question that I think all of you will have some really good insight on. How do you foresee the long-duration energystorage market developing in relation to replacing fossil fuels? – I feel like that’s anentire panel in itself. So…(laughing) Well, I mean, it has to, right? Costs are coming down. You know, the technologyimproves as you see with any of the renewable fuels and any climate change initiatives, right? I mean, the cost of solar, you know, the sort of penetrationof solar was largely about the reduction in costs of solar panels, as well as the financing that was offered. Those were the innovationsin the solar industry that really drove distributed generation, and then eventually utility-scale solar. You kind of need to see something parallel to that in storage for it to be widespreadand adopted, and, you know, and I think one of the challenges and the barriers is goingto be, well, there’s two.A couple of areas that I can think of. One is sort of the reliance on lithium, and the fact that, you know,lithium is kind of the core, not only for energy storage, but also electric vehicle storage, and then every battery thatgoes into your phone as well. So, you know, over time,there’s going to be sustainability questionsaround mining of lithium. There’s going to besustainability questions about the supply chainof lithium batteries, and you know, whether they’remanufactured in China, or, you know, assembled, or, you know, what does each sort of country have? You know, does it become a transportation andnational security issue for North America? So, I think those barriersabsolutely have to be overcome, and then finally, you’regoing to see sort of, as more and more installations happen, and, you know, the learningcurve is a big part of the cost curve comingdown, and for it becoming a more and more viablealternative to fossil fuels.And I will say, to somebody, I did see that on the Q and A, and Stacy, not to preempt at all, but you know, someone mentioned why therewasn’t an oil executive. I’ve actually spent a fairamount of time working in, I largely work in natural gas, and so, you know, there is sort of this question of sustainability. The other question thatalways is a practical question that all of us have to ask when you’re planning power andenergy delivery to consumers is energy diversity. Can we all? You know, we cannot be all reliant on just renewables and storage. At some point, you know,sort of one or the other. You know, if it’s not fossil fuels, are there fuels beyond that? 100% or 95% of a single fuel is just never going to bea viable practical answer for something that people are just going to need more and more often. – Thank you, Manisha. So, yeah, there’s been alot of really good stuff in the Q and A.I’m sorry I don’t have time toaddress all these questions, but I think all of you have really been sharing some amazingdiverse answers with us. So, I really appreciate that. So, I do want to get to one final question before we break for thebreakout sessions, and that is, do you have any final wordsof advice to our students? But perhaps especially for women who are interested in energy, as they think aboutgoing out into the world and starting their careers. – You know, I’d say what everybody elsehas said on this panel, which is be open to, you know, there is a value to meandering. There’s a value to beingopen to the opportunities as they present themselves. The industry is changing and the definition ofenergy is broadening. Again, you could seethat by the, you know, by the variety of positions and roles that are reflected on this panel, and so I will end with somethingthat, you know, I learned, I never quite took too hard when I was in graduate school, but, you know.Certainly understood thevalue of it over the years. from a Duke professor, which was, there is also value infinding the right boss as much as finding the right work, and that can, you know, that can apply to a lot of thequestions around male allies and the ability to rotate positions and learn different skills, and you know, just a good boss canmake all the difference, as well as the right, you know, as well as finding work in anindustry you’re interested in. So, be open. – My advice would be tocontinue doing things like you’re already doing right now, going to events like this, hearing about different perspectives and different roles within the industry.Ultimately, the Dukenetwork is phenomenal. I’ve never met anybody butreally open, helpful people in the Duke alumni community. So, don’t be afraid toreach out to alumni, to ask questions, toreally flex the network to help you figure out yourpath and look for opportunities. – Yeah, I think that’sdefinitely true, right? My first job at PG and E, it was a Nicholas grad who hired me. I would say sort of two things, and they seem like they’re in conflict. So I’m still clearly trying toresolve these things myself, but the first is to be bold. You know more than you think.You are a better leader than you think. You are a better publicspeaker than you think. Don’t undervalue yourself. You deserve more than you think, but the flip side ofthat is to stay curious, keep asking questions, keep learning, and that’s how you’ll continue to prove your value over time. Don’t just let somethingslide in a meeting. Pull that person aside afterwards and say, “What do you mean by that? I didn’t understand that analysis.” Because you’ll go into the next meeting and you’ll know more. You’ll be connecting more things to it, and then in the third meeting, you’ll be explaining it to someone else. – Thanks, Elizabeth. Everyone, I think, neededto hear that today.That was really nice. I’ll make two points. I think, first, aroundLinkedIn-ing, but I don’t know. I don’t think that’s actually a verb, but I think I did, maybe there was a class or some guidance when I was at school around the art of effectiveLinkedIn connections, and I’ll say, I am hardlyan important person, but as I am somebodywho just happens to work in a really fun industry, so I have probably, at any given time, like a few hundred requests or messages, and so I wish I couldspeak with everybody, and I talk to as many peopleas I can, but obviously, it’s just, at a certainpoint, not possible, and so the people who I typicallydo get on the phone with, I really appreciate whensomebody reaches out and they say something meaningful about the company orthe work that I’ve done. Like, Sara, I just sawthat you guys announced that you’re the first ever,you know, US airline to offset all of your domestic emissions,which, by the way, is true. Have you thought about this, bringing in some othersolution, or, you know, I saw Delta did this, andmaybe this could work well for your operation or this other startup, and then I’m excited, because I know that you’reinterested, you know, in this industry specifically.You’re not sort of copying and pasting to everybody who hassustainability in their title and also engaging in conversation, and I always appreciate that. It can be an idea thatis just not a great one. It doesn’t matter. I have plenty of bad ideas, and so just starting theconversation, I think, is totally meaningful, and actually, I think, for many of the interns and people who’ve worked on my team, that’s how the initialconnection was made. So, of course, useLinkedIn, great, great tool, and then some guidance I got that stuck with me throughoutmy time at JetBlue is, first, when I was my very first intern, and I was working for my boss, who, my previous boss, so, so talented, built up the whole program,really, at Chapel Hill, and I remember asking her, she said she’s having mework on different projects, and I’d ask her, “How did this start?” And she’d go, “I don’tknow, I thought of it.” And I asked her another one,”How did this one start?” And she was like, “I just thought of it.” And that was really helpful, because then I was ableto feel the confidence of, “Oh, I see an inefficiency.I see something that someother company is doing in a totally different sector that I think could apply here.” And that guides me today. There are no walls within my program. It is truly what we want to do. What are any areas that, of course, should alignwith our company strategy, but that’s been really, really neat, and then when my boss leftlast summer, my CEO said to me, “Be demanding of our timebecause they’re so busy, ” but if I don’t reach out to them or put things on theircalendar or send them things until they feel like I’m spamming them, and they’re not responding,they are absolutely noticing, and they were lookingfor people to lead that, and that’s how I’vegotten to this place now where we’re in consistent communication.They’re bringing me into meetings, and so I encourage everyoneto take that approach when you’re in the job. – Well, thank you so muchto all of our panelists. I know we’re out of time, but this was very thought-provoking, and we appreciate youtaking the time to join us. So, really, thanks forcoming back to Duke today. To all our guests,including Duke students, faculty, staff, alumni, and friends, thank you for joining too, and thank you for all of your questions..

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