Hello. Before we begin the podcast I wouldlike to acknowledge that false dichotomy is recorded on the treaty lands and territoryof the Mississaugas of the credit and that we recognize and uphold the significance ofthe dish with one spoon covenant we acknowledge that this land is home to many first nations,metis, and Inuit people and we respect and honor their relationship with this land.Weare grateful for the indigenous people who are stewards of this land and have taken careof this area for thousands of years. As we conduct our research or create art we aregrateful for the opportunity to use these lands and recognize and appreciate the historicand ongoing relationship our indigenous neighbors have with this land. We promise to honor andrespect these lands and the indigenous people who call them home, and always continue tolearn and work towards reconciliation. Thank you for listening. hello everybody and welcome to False Dichotomy,a science and arts podcast. So, I’m Sam Majoros. I’m the host of the podcast. I’m a wildlifebiologist with a focus in arctic biology and bioinformatics, but I’m also an artist andI like acting and writing and just theater in general.So, since this is the first episode,I guess just a brief explanation of why I’m making this, and what this is. So, as beingsomeone who kind of worked both with science and arts, I’ve met artists who are kind ofunsure about science or find it intimidating or cold and I’ve met scientists who reallylook down on art and don’t see its value, but I think both are extremely important toour world and both actually work together really well. So, for this podcast, I wantedto show how fun and approachable science can be, but also how valuable art can be, bothfor its own value and also as maybe a tool to communicate the science. So, with thatlittle explanation, we’ll jump into it. So we have two really great scientists todayand two wonderful artists, and the kind of theme for this first episode is just Universityof Guelph alumni. I went here too in my undergrad and am currently here for grad school.Soour first guest, we’ll introduce the science side first, so first is Lauren Janke. She’sa terrestrial field entomologist who graduated from zoology at Guelph. Hello. Uh next wehave Ian Thompson. We’re currently working in the same lab here at Guelph and Ian didwildlife biology and conservation in his undergrad and also did a masters of environmental science.Hell yeah, hello. Now, we’ll jump over to the artists. So first we have Thomas Smith.He’s a historian, writer, and actor.He graduated from theater studies at the University ofGuelph and is starting his masters in history. Hello. And last but not least, we have OrenBowes. He graduated from theater studies at Guelph and is the go-to person for all technicaltheater needs, whether online or in person. Hello hello. All right, so welcome to thepodcast! Thanks for having us. Thank you. Yeah, happy to be here. Sorry for immediatelyswearing. It’s allowed, it’s okay. Uh I’ll do a brief explanation of how thepodcast is gonna work.You all of course know this, but this is for any potential listeners.So we’re gunna kind of talk to each scientist, each artist for a couple minutes, and justtalk about what they’re working on or an area they’re really passionate about, and thenat the end they’re going to have to work together to create some kind of art piece to communicatethe science. And that really can be anything that they can think of, whether it’s a pitchfor a play or really anything. So let’s just get started, I guess we’ll start in the orderyou were introduced, so Lauren we’ll talk to you first.I’m so honored. So like whatwork are you doing currently as a field entomologist? Right now I currently work for the centerfor biodiversity genomics at the University of Guelph and I’m actually a field, I’m ajunior field technician that’s my official title, but basically what I’m doing rightnow is just preparing for some awesome field work that we’re going to be doing up in theYukon. So I’m leaving actually in less than two weeks, um and I’m going up to the Yukonand I’m just going to be collecting terrestrial insects. Um so that includes putting up alot of different types of traps to get a lot of different types of insects, and what we’retrying to do with that is get a huge database of what insects are actually in the arctic.Um so the samples will go back to the university of Guelph where they’re going to be DNA barcoded,which is a really really awesome way of kind of figuring out which species are which withoutneeding super technological, like really technical, taxonomic work because every single specieshas a different DNA barcode of this one region of mitochondrial DNA.So yeah basically umI’m at the very beginning of that process and I’m the one going out there and collectingthe samples um but I’ve done basically the whole process now uh in different labs atU of G, and yeah it’s pretty fun. So you just like scan scan the bugs DNA and be like ohwell this is obviously, if you scan them you would know, this is uh, you know. I go tothe local Loblaws, and I steal their scanners, and then I just scan the bugs. Yeah no so,uh basically, um like to really summarize it, like really really just uh like in smallwords you just, or in like not taking up too much time i mean, like uh so you tissue samplethem basically. So you collect them, um uh they are dead and you tissue sample them andfrom that tissue sampling you can get uh sections of DNA, um by using different um molecularmethods basically, and then what you do is you put that through a big machine that tellsyou which ACGT it is in order, um and then you basically just use that big strand andyou can compare it against other things and the different ACGT, um the different strands,will tell you which different species they are and how different they are from otherones.Am I explaining this well Ian and Sam? Yeah, I think you’re doing good. Um that’syeah, that’s basically DNA barcoding, and it’s really cool because one of the big issueswith insects is that they’re so cryptic. We just don’t know very much about them, andum so there’s not taxonomists that work on every single type of insect ever so DNA barcodingkind of alleviates that issue in that it helps us figure out which species are differentfrom other ones without needing that super technical taxonomic expertise of someone whohas studied that thing for 10 years and, you know, can tell this little black beetle fromthat little black beetle.We just don’t have money or resources to do that, unfortunately,for every single insect out there. Yeah and as someone who’s like worked on insects andtried to find trees in like the literature and stuff, it’s like non-existent for a goodchunk of stuff, so it’s definitely super important and helpful. A lot of the taxonomic work thatI’ve done has been like using papers from the early 1900s, so it’s kind of difficultbecause first of all they speak very different English from us.Like it’s just it’s differentin that way and then there’s so much jargon. Um like I’m really passionate about scientificcommunication and being able to describe things that I’m doing in ways that people can understand,um but that’s a pretty new concept i would say. So these papers from the 1900s, likethey just they don’t really help you. There’s there’s a lot of scientific superiority goingon back then. They really didn’t want just anyone just picking up a textbook and understandingyou know what a, what DNA even is.Yeah. And that’s exactly the opposite of how I feellike most of the scientists that I know feel nowadays, like we all really appreciate scientificcommunication. And if only scientific literacy was more, uh more common we wouldn’t havemany anti-vaxxers running around. Yeah actually the Covid situation right now is a perfectexample of why we need scientific communication, because there’s people going around and spreadingmisinformation because they just don’t understand what scientists are trying to say. Yeah, yeah,so you said you’ve just like been involved with various aspects of that whole barcodingprocess, do you have like part of it that was your favorite to do, or like what’s your,what do you prefer to do when it comes to uh lab work field work and stuff like that?Definitely field work is my favorite.I mean from from a really young age I was alwaysjust loving to be outside all the time. So um so I’m actually going back to school toget my master’s in forestry which will also allow me to continue on with field work. Butum I don’t know, I sat down one day and I was like what, what is really important forme in a job and the number one thing was being outside, so that’s kind of why I like fieldwork so much because I’m able to get outside. I’m an outdoors woman, person, i don’t know,so anytime that I’m outside I’m happy. Yeah, that’s awesome. So do you have a favoriteinsect? Like what’s your favorite kind of study taxa or species? I like beetles becausebeetles, um arguably are the most diverse, um but a fly taxonomist will tell you somethingdifferent. That’s ironic because I used to be a fly taxonomist. But um I just think beetlesare cool. You know that meme? I just think they’re neat. I like, what’s your thing? Ilike bugs.Yeah, boards of Canada. Yeah, 90s commercial. Oh god, those are, yeah oh mygod yeah. What’s your thing? That’s childhood right there. Um I like beetles because inmy opinion, I think they’re the prettiest. Um they got those hardened outer shells. Theystill look really pretty when they’re in ethanol um. Even when they’re soaked in a hundredpercent pure alcohol, they’re yeah. Dead but still cute. Butterflies and flies and stufflike that they just kind of, like they’re soft bodied, so they kind of get destroyedso i feel like because. The butterfly’s destroyed in alcohol. Oh no. Pathetic. Who would havethought right? Um but no, I mean like a lot of sorting work is sorting insects in ethanolso I feel like because I’ve seen so many pretty beetles in ethanol maybe I’m biased becauseof that, but anyway um yeah. Ian’s just waiting with a rebuttal. Did you say me? Yeah, you got all those butterflieson your wall there, you know? Oh oh I, I do.I am a fan of a good butterfly, more, actuallymore so, moths. I think they’re super cool. Moths are superior, I agree. Moths are great.Right? Um but I, I am truly an aquatic entomologist, so I am, I don’t even think land bugs arecool so. I’m kidding, I’m kidding. That’s how, that’s how me and Ian differ. He’s, he’san aquatic entomologist, and I’m a terrestrial entomologist. So if we like fused together,like Steven universe style, we’re like the ultimate entomologist. But yeah I love, Ido actually love beetles. I think there’s the, the, I can’t remember whose quote itis, but it’s like, when god created the earth he had an ornate fondness of beetles, or somethinglike that. An inordinate fondness of beetles. That was uh about Charles Darwin, wasn’t it?Yeah. I think so, And I think there’s like for one, for all, like for one in four animals,there’s a beetle basically. Yeah. Just so diverse so. They’re so diverse, so abundant,and we just don’t know like anything about them relative to other taxa.So that’s why,that’s why entomology in my opinion is just so cool, because there’s so much to learnstill, um and it’s a great way to study things like ecology and diversity. Um and that’skind of how I got into entomology in the first place, because I was passionate about thosethings and then I realized that this was a great avenue for me to do that. Yeah there’slike tens of millions of beetles, you know. You gotta, you gotta catch them all huh? AndI will see every single one. Every one. Yes. And give them each a kiss. Yeah. So you’vetalked a bit about how science communication is important. Do you have like any other experience,um with like doing outreach and science communication? I think one of the the biggest ones that comesto my mind right away actually, is a Guelph bug day, which was a community event thatI helped run for three years.It’s actually still ongoing. Uh due to Covid it’s virtualnow. Um but yeah, it’s basically a community day where a whole bunch of entomology students,It started um from Sarah Dolson and Matt Mazzotti, who were two master students, one in the schoolof environmental science and one in integrative biology, kind of the two the two places wherethe entomology peeps will be, and they were like, we want to give back to the community.There were other uh Ottawa bug days and London bug days, and they felt really passionateabout it. And so a bunch of us entomology people got together, and uh basically we,in the Guelph arboretum, we had this big event where families could come and learn aboutinsects in a lot of different ways.So we had things like insects in food. So cookiesmade with cricket protein and there were some live insects that we had there um. Terrifyingfor the live insects. Yeah, exactly they looked at the cookies and they were like oh. If youmisbehave this could be you. Um and later on we also had uh some more academic involvement.So we had um some lab posters, but we tried to keep it more um visual and more scientificcommunication. Um and actually Ian and I run, ran a workshop, um the third year that Guelphbug day ran, and that was really fun because we kind of got to teach people how to pininsects, because I think that’s a pretty, like specialized thing that you don’t reallylearn about.Yeah. Um it’s really cool to just kind of teach people about that and bugday was always really really fun. Yeah, that sounds awesome. You helped out with the bugday didn’t you? I was supposed to but i ended up not being able to. Like i had a conflictat the last second. Yeah but I always like thought it was super cool and wanted to tobe involved. Yeah. Sammi was doing aquatic bug day. Actually, that was another booth.We had a bunch of aquatic insects. I’m pretty sure like, Ian, you went out and collectedthem, didn’t you? Yep, always, always in a stream. If I’m not at home, I’m just in astream or the lab I guess. Water boy. I wish. Just, just like soaked to the bone. Soakedto the bone, there’s just beetles, or not beetles, there’s aquatic insects just coveringmy body, yeah, that’s my true.Your final form. Yeah, exactly. I’ll do one more question,um because a lot of people are involved in both the sciences and the arts, do you wantto talk about any like arts you’re involved with, or like really love? Yes actually, Iam very passionate about Carthaginian war elephants. So um in my undergrad, I dabbledin history and I took, um I was a history major for a hot second there um and then droppedit because I just realized I wasn’t really gonna go into history so there is no pointin doing a whole other year um.Yeah so I took a lot of classics with Walshbecause, Walsh, John Walsh, uh Dr. John Walsh, is the best like. A magical creature. Bestprofessor. He’s amazing. His classes were great. So, there was this one um class thatwe were learning about, um I think it’s the second Punic war. It’s been a couple years,but it was the war that the Carthaginians brought all their elephants across the alpsto attack Rome. Yeah, Hannibal right? Yeah, Hannibal. Um and I remember just sitting thereand being like, war elephants, Carthage was in the north of Africa, African elephantscan’t be tamed, what were these elephants? And so I went into this deep dive about Carthaginianwar elephants, and the taxonomy of them and I actually learned that these war elephantsbecame extinct because Rome actually exploited them, and they were actually like a subspecies,or there’s kind of still, um they’re still, they’re not quite sure, but they think it’sa subspecies of the modern day African elephant, um that became extinct because of um yeahroman exploitation.So that was very fun um and it was interesting. Well, not for theelephants. No, it wasn’t fun for the elephants but um it was really interesting being ableto, um I guess, utilize my scientific knowledge in looking uh at something completely differentfrom what I actually studied. And so yeah, Carthaginian war elephants. They’re reallycool. That’s super cool. There’s a lot of ways you can uh integrate your knowledge ofdifferent things into other things. Interdisciplinary research. Yeah, so maybe now we’ll jump overto our other scientist, Ian. Hello, hello. So what kind of projects are you currentlyworking on? I think the question is what am i not working on? No, I’m kidding.Um. Busybee. Oh gosh, where do I start? I guess, so right now I’m currently um working in thesame lab as Sam, so currently I’m actually working on an industry project. So um likeLauren was mentioning with the DNA barcoding, currently working alongside a um an environmentalconsulting firm that’s local in Guelph, and we’re working with them to integrate DNA barcodinginto um basically just into biomonitoring of uh potential effects that uh pulp and papermines might have on um local ecosystems. So uh currently right now, I’m doing a littlebit of a like a lab grunt kind of just working with bugs hands-on putting them in platesand stuff, but overall just working to kind of integrate DNA bar coding into more of anindustry perspective, that kind of where, right now it’s more focused on taxonomy. Umtaxonomy still has its benefits within uh industry and it’s really um, it’s it’s a reallyamazing skill to be able to identify like really uh, like hard to identify specimens,I guess like uh, and especially with aquatic insects.Um I’ve actually had my own uh practicewith identification, identification of aquatic insects, um which I’ve done for a job in thepast as well. Um but yeah uh it’s very difficult and uh we’re currently working with like ataxonomist who’s been doing it for 40 plus years um but he’s one of very little, andso we’re trying to kind of integrate DNA barcoding into this industry just so that we can makea little bit, make science a little bit more accessible and make these new methods of molecularidentification a little bit more available for industry scientists, so yeah. Yeah that’ssuper cool. That makes a lot of sense. You don’t want to rely just on people who spendtheir whole lives studying something. It’s not very feasible for a lot of research. Yeah,and I guess another thing that I’m kind of working on right now is I just finished mymaster’s, and for my master’s research I am studying eDNA um and the fun long scientificterm is eDNA metabarcoding. Um but basically I’m actually doing some informatics work,uh looking at a bunch of data that was collected but not actually wanted.So it was a bunchof stream eDNA. So somebody took a water sample and they wanted, they were looking for invertebrates,and they got a bunch of algae and bacteria and fungi. So I’m currently working rightnow to actually um look into those communities and and see kind of what the value is of this,of this data that kind of gets like traditionally thrown out really, so yeah, and that’s kindof what I’m really working on right now, I guess.Yeah, that’s really cool. Can you givelike a brief description for the listeners like what eDNA is and how you find that? Yeah,so eDNA is uh, is a very new field. It’s very, there’s a lot to know, and a lot to stillresearch, but um it’s uh, basically it’s a method of collecting um specimen details andpotential diversity and species that are present in an environment without actually killingthose specimens. The traditional methods often require you to take full samples. Like sofor example, the uh if you’re collecting aquatic insects um, you often take a kick net andyou kick some specimens and some debris into a net or you’ll take a grab of that um debrisand the and the the the benthic debris i guess it’s called, um but uh, and then you traditionallywill preserve that in uh ethanol and then you have to sort through and kind of identifythose but with eDNA, for example in water, you can take a water sample filter it througha very fine fine mesh filter and you can amplify any type of DNA fragments that might be presenton the filter and in the water column.Nice, that’s super cool. Yeah, it’s a, it’s supercool because it’s uh it’s a little, I like the fact that it’s less invasive, um and youcan just get a better uh, you can get a glimpse of the biodiversity present in a system withoutactually having to like necessarily have that much of an impact so. That’s awesome. eDNAis super cool as well just because you can get a lot of data um so if you were to alreadyhave things like a barcode library where you already know where specific things are like,taxonomists worked with like molecular biologists and they identified this thing and they havethe DNA barcode, then you would take your eDNA samples and you could match it with thatand figure out what’s in there, which is just super cool. Yeah, I actually uh recently,I’m working on uh, currently in, in the informatic methods that we’re kind of focusing on, isthe difference between clustering these sequences you get um to kind of see if you to get like,like these what are called operational taxonomic units, um and so we cluster by a certain thresholdthat tells us like okay if, if these two sequences are within this 97 similarity um then we canconsider those to be this like, from the same uh like proxy species, but I’m currently lookinginto, looking just at the sequences and not the OTUs, and uh I.Actually it’s crazy tothink how many sequences you end up with, I currently have like 30 sites, and I haveseven million sequences which then like because the quality of the DNA sometimes can be alittle bit um not great, you end up with a lot less but I still have 24 000 um clusteredsequences that we’re working on currently um using those reference libraries will Laurenwas talking about to get an idea of what potentially is in the samples. Yeah, that’s awesome, Anda lot of like information to work with. A good resource to like get a lot of new information.So I asked Lauren this question, I think I need to ask you too. What’s your favoriteinsect to like look at and work with? I have, oh gosh, that’s, that’s just a hard question.It’s like asking your favorite child. Yeah, I gave birth to all of these insects.No, um, no I guess, it changes on the daily, I think for sure because I actually, I’m luckyenough that in the lab work that I’m doing I get to kind of go through and sort throughall of these different aquatic insects and we have a camera in the lab, that Lauren actuallytrained me on, which takes images at different um focuses, and you get this like really beautifulimage of like a really small specimen.Um but I will say my favorite are um, it’s atype of caddisfly, um that uh creates, with little little tiny tiny sand flecks and pebbles,it’ll create a little conical kind of shell that it lives in. Um yeah so it looks likea snail. It’s like a little house. Yeah and they’re, but they’re, and they’re so, they’reso cool and these ones are really small, but you find them in streams and I love streams,so those are my favorite, I think yeah. That’s a good choice. They’re super cool. I rememberlooking for a lot of those up in Churchill. Yeah, I was gonna say. Yes. Yeah actuallythat’s kind of how I got started in the same lab that the Sam and I are in. We went onthat arctic field course and I got kind of more introduced into aquatic insects throughuh Kamil who was a grad student on our trip and uh I just remember he had the waiters,and I thought that was so cool and I wanted to do that, so at one point I just was likeI’m gonna get in, can i wear these? And then I got to see all the caddisflies and I gotreally really hyped about them so.Now you’re in, you can’t get out. No, I know. He literallycan’t get out of the stream. He’s stuck in mud. Yeah, he has to flood his house to likemaintain his degree. If ever he’s not like a little bit like soaked in water uh the universitytakes it back. I, it’s just, I sweat a lot, no. Covered in caddisflies. Yeah, yeah.The dream.Honestly. Well the other thing too is the uh moths they kind of come at the, when you’retrying to collect them, like terrestrial moths and creatures um you kind of do UV traps atnight and so, you can catch caddisfly adults that way as well which is kind of cool. Soyou say terrestrial moths, like are there aquatic moths? I realized I said that andthat doesn’t make sense. I will say there is, there, there are, there’s one that I knowof, an aquatic um uh lepidoptera larva and, lepidoptera is butterfly and moths, I actuallydon’t know if it’s a moth or a butterfly, but it’s called parapoynx. Super cool name.I like it. Yeah and uh because there’s not a lot of aquatic uh Leps which is kind offunny because they’re very closely related to caddisflies and caddisflies are almostexclusively aquatic in a larval stage, so yeah. The cool thing about caddisflies isthat they’re aquatic in their larval stage, but then they’re terrestrial in their adultstage. So there’s a lot of insects that kind of cross over.And they’re cool all the time.All the time. Dragonflies do the same thing don’t they? Yeah. They’re aquatic and thenthey. Dragonfly larvae they’re terrifying. They’re vicious. They are. They look likelittle demons. Yeah, I love dragonflies though. They’re cool. They uh, they have this i don’tknow if you know about their mouths? Yeah. But they have that, uh basically it’s likea claw. Yeah the, the alien like that *Oren makes an alien noise*. Another fun fact aboutdragonflies they actually um, when kind of scared or when they need to go fast, theyuse, they propel air out of their butt basically. Me too. Don’t we all? Yeah so they’re, they’reum, they’re gassy and fast so.That’s what they called me in high school. Yeah that’sthe name of a good band right there. Do you guys, Are we gonna start a band? Is that whatthis podcast is about? That’s our project. I got a mouth harp on my desk here. I canstart twanging away. I can like croak like a cricket or something.Oh whoa so please show us.No. No. Okay, so we’ll save that for the end. Yeah, I’ll saveit for the theater. Okay. All right, we’ll ask one more question, the same as i askedLauren, what like arts do you like to create or really love? Oh, I mean, I don’t, oh mygosh, I guess, I wasn’t prepared for this. I should have prepared. Oh, it’s okay. Umin my, in my undergrad, I, I was part of Curtain Call, um but funny enough I actually did alittle bit more um uh behind the scenes stuff, more so just like administrative things. Umbut uh, yeah I’ve always kind of loved, loved theater and I uh, I’m always kind of a craftyperson.I honestly, um one thing that i love which is kind of not at all close to entomologyis fashion and creative and design and stuff like that so. I uh recently as a pandemicproject, got into sewing and so I started with masks and slowly I’m hoping to make myown clothes one day so. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. Do a, do a little thrifting, uh youknow, reclaim like a drape or something turn it into a shirt.Why not? Absolutely. I, sowhen I was making masks for uh family and friends, I would just buy sheets and justreuse those so, because I mean, if it’s just a single sheet nobody’s really gonna, usuallypeople want a match but. He’s being so humble. He is like the thriftiest king I know. He’sso good at thrifting and like turning things into something cool. I don’t actually, I thinkI, I think it’s been a long time since I’ve actually purchased a brand new article ofclothing. I pretty much source all my stuff from thrift stores and I actually one daywill hopefully open up my, a little like kind of thrifty store online of just like kindof just things i find and stuff like that. Dead bugs. Dead bugs. Caddisflies. This ismy jewelry I made. Dead bugs and drapes. Actually we have another friend who makesresin jewelry with with insects um which is a cool integration of arts and science. Tommyand I know someone who does taxidermy. You guys should link up and uh you know startbanging out lots of little figurines and stuff, why not? Oh I love that.I mean, I don’t knowif you can see it, but right there is my insect collection. I, I think – Oh I thought thatwas like a board with like, it was like one of those things where you put like a custommessage on but no that’s insects isn’t it? Is that your insect collection from underground?Yeah, do you still have yours? I do. I actually, I have the less, it’s not as fun, but I havean aquatic insect collection too because I took this whole class that was just specificallyfor aquatic insects, so I have like, I think 75 little vials of just like random aquaticinsects that I uh collected and identified. Whoa, yeah now you just need, what was it?Like 29 million something something something and your collection will be complete. Thenhe’s a Pokmon master. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess we’ll jump over to the likearts side of things now uh with Thomas. Hello. What like aspects of theater and arts areyou most focused on? So right now um I’m currently a research assistant with the Canadian Writingand Research Collaboratory.Um and that’s all preparing me because I’m going to be doingmy master’s in history. But for my undergrad at the university of Guelph, I was a theatermajor. And so the the main aspects of theater that I really liked throughout the four yearswas acting, as well as writing, and I found, especially my later years, I really enjoyedlike screenwriting, as well as writing for performance and stuff like that. And so formy masters, I’m hoping on bridging the gap between like history and theater by lookingat um like early modern London.And so with my advisor we’re going to be looking at theLord’s Mayor day performances and I hope to do something fun with virtual reality. Supercool. Do you know kind of like what that virtual reality like might look like? Like what thingswill be incorporated or included in that? So we’re still deciding on uh whether or notit’s going to be like a a toured um virtual reality experience or if it will be a stand-aloneexperience like whether or not uh it’s something that you can explore like individually orif it’s just like a sedentary um location where you can just experience a historicalevent around you.It’s probably going to be just a sedentary experience with not a lotof locomotion just because of constraints with budgets and like uh the experience withvirtual reality and unity and stuff like that. Yeah, cool. So like when it comes to writing,do you have like a preference when it comes to like screenwriting or like stage kind ofwriting and like the differences between that? Um I think that right now I prefer writingfor the screen, like screenwriting. Um it’s probably just because the most recent coursethat I took was a screenwriting class, um but I find as though, like while I love theaterand like acting on stage as well as musical theater, um I find that writing for the screenopens up a lot of like the possibilities when it comes for creativity, like with the theateryou have to consider a lot of realism and I like the escapism as well as like the creativeunrestraint that comes along with with screenwriting.Um it’s a lot easier to write in like magicand as someone that really loves like uh science fiction as well as fantasy um the magics andthe magical realism that comes with like science fiction are a lot more difficult to portraywhen it comes to like a theatrical setting. It’s a lot easier to, you know, have someone,the audience suspend their disbelief that you’re, you’re throwing a fireball at someonewith CGI than it is throwing, uh, I don’t know a bean bag at someone who’s basicallylarping on stage in front of an audience of a hundred.Wait, you mean you don’t set iton fire first? Funnily enough we care about safety at the theater program, it’s shockingI know but uh. Thomas I actually have a question for you. Yeah. What draws you to London specifically?Um that’s, London was um, my advisor who I greatly respected in um, I work, like theCanadian writing research collaborative is, uh was birthed from uh the Humanities InterdisciplinaryCollaboratory lab, and so working there I met Dr. Kim Martin who, um right now I’m involvedwith one of her research projects as well as, uh Sam’s involved with it, where we’relike using VR stuff and VR experiences, and so I was hoping to continue my research andplaying with uh like this virtual experiences.And um her, her specialty that she did herundergrad and her master’s is in is early modern London um and she knows a lot of peoplewith the map of early modern London, which is like a, a project that specializes in thingslike theaters and uh social places, and like um, like the culture of of early modern London.And it just sounded fascinating to me so I, I’ve agreed to to learn under her. Um it soundsreally similar in that like that’s kind of a tool of, like a way of studying what youwant to look at like with VR in the same way that I wanted to study ecology so thereforeI used insects. Kind of. Yeah, one of, one of the, um the games actually that I was playingaround with was uh visualizing different um protein structures and I don’t, I don’t knowlike the the scientific-ness of it but uh I was reading like literature uh analysesof it, of how like visualizing like the structures of proteins can lead for better um gene therapiesand other medications and stuff like that, and it’s fascinating how, like how quicklythe, the, the subjects like the arts and stuff like that because, because virtual realityis a lot of like performance and like body movements and, and stuff like that and likeI thought it’s, uh it goes together very nicely.You can go out and you can pet a protein.What Tommy is saying is we gotta Lauren and Ian in the old VR lab and have them startworking, handling the bugs, juggling them around. Can we get some beetles in there?Shooting a little beetle a three pointer into the ethanol bucket you know and then setting it on fire and throwing itacross the stage. Yeah fireball *Oren makes a fireball sound*. Oh my god fire beetles.Yo, that sounds like a spell. I’d cast that in D&D. Wait, what’s Thomas’s favorite bug?Uh my favorite bug? Do you have a favourite I’m a big fan of the um uh, like I reallylike lunar moths. I really like Lepidoptera. Um when I was a kid I was just obsessed witha movie called the blue butterfly. I don’t know if any of you heard it but it’s a veryvery low budget Canadian movie about a little boy discovering new butterfly species, andthat made me like obsessed with bugs as a kid.Um but I also like uh, like I don’t rememberthe name but like they’re, they’re, they’re moths that are in Ontario that are like pinkand yellow. Oh uh, they’re rosy maple moths. Those ones. I like, I think those ones arebeautiful. This is why we hang out with entomologists. What’s that bug? It looks, it’s got thesecolors. Oh wow obviously it’s the rosy maple moth. I was just going to say I, uh at beingan entomologist, I always get people just like giving me the briefest description ofsome random speck of an insect they saw and I like, I, I, I have so many people who willsay like, yeah I saw this. It looked like a bee. It was uh, it was yellow and it haduh this and I, literally, I, I just literally searched their exact description and thenjust go through google images. Don’t tell them our secrets! Don’t tell them our secret.No, my favorite is like, I think it’s so endearing when people send me a blurry ass picture ofa tiny speck on the wall, and they’re like what is it? What is it? Taxonomists hate thisone simple trick.One simple trick. It’s like how, it’s like how a ton of like uh doctorslike will use google to look up illnesses. I also think it’d be really cool if I couldhave like, I know why there’s like laws and stuff for it, but I would love my own likeMadagascar hissing cockroaches. Oh yeah. I think they’re really cool and like- Wait,there’s laws against that? Yeah, there’s, there’s hardcore laws. Thanks department ofAgriculture. They just like have so many babies and then they could be so potentially invasivethat there are a lot of laws. Ah, they’ll just, they’ll just Tommy will keep them, youknow.There’s an alternative though. You can buy praying mantises at home depot. At homedepot? Yeah, 15 bucks for like 400 eggs or something like that. Oh my god. Yeah. Letsgo to Canadian Tire, wait no, home depot. No no, at Canadian Tire you only get 200.Yeah. For the same price. It’s not cost effective. When I was younger I actually bought, um youknow how the reptile stores they sell the uh the little insects they use for feeders,I raised my own super worms into beetles.And uh like I had a little beetle who likewas like one of my favorite pets I ever had and I had her for like two years until sheshe passed away, and like um I also had my own crickets. I had a cricket named Jiminythat I had for many many months. Um and I grew my own uh, I think is it the horned wormsthat they buy, that you can buy at the reptile stores, you can only feed them like mulberryleaves and I remember that I, I went to the the store because I, had horned worms as petsand so I was buying this mulberry paste directly from like the reptile store because I wantedto keep my pet worms alive.Wholesome hours. I love insects. They’re so cute. I think that people justlike, yeah people get scared of them, and I think it’s just like, it’s very much justlike a like a. A social thing. Absolutely. I mean there are some insects that like youshould genuinely be afraid of. Like have a healthy fear of. Hey, what? But it’s like,it’s more of, it’s but, it’s the same as like I have a healthy fear of bears. It doesn’tmean I don’t like bears. Like I’m not gonna go out and you know. Actually there’s, thisis a random fact, but uh because you know how everybody’s always scared of uh Australiabecause they have like so many like poisonous like things and like especially insects, tarantulasall that kind of stuff, apparently Australians are scared of Canada because of like bearsand, and like large moose. You know what? I, moose are genuinely terrifying. If you’renot afraid of moose, you should be.I lived out west and I had Aussie roommates and theyshit their pants when they saw a moose like it was the most exciting thing ever. Honestlythough, I would also shit my pants if I saw a moose. They’re so cool. So we already kindof got into like, I was going to ask you for your last question what like, you liked aboutscience and stuff like that. We kind of got into the whole insect thing already, but youdid a bit of science when you first came to Guelph and then kind of like switched to theater.Do you want to talk about kind of like that transition and what made you like kind ofwanna like do more of the arts? Yeah, so my initial game plan for university was I wantedto come for biology and like the biodiversity institute um but I, I was also like heavilydrawn to theater just because I, I loved acting and like performing in high school.Um andthen I, the very very end of my high school, I did uh like um earth sciences and like ageology class and so I was drawn between these three things, so when I came to Guelph, Ifinally decided to do a bachelor of arts and science. Um and to try to mend everythingtogether, my, my art side of the BAS was in theater studies, and then the science partwas in, what is it? geo uh. GIS? Environmental analysis and geographic information systems,I believe is the minor. So because I was hoping to do all the GIS, and like somehow blendthem together, but uh I found that I didn’t like the the lab work of uh like all, allthe the technical aspects of learning about geographic information systems. I was nota fan of like working in the lab all day um and it’s actually coming around full circlebecause right now, for my research assistant job, I am researching the ontologies thatare used for linked open data when it comes to geographical data because I was the onlyone that had any experience with geographical information systems.Sounds like you’re justlike, the perfect person for this job. The stars aligned and suddenly Thomas is like,wait? Are you telling me I’m an expert in everything I need to be to do this exact thing?So my, my, my years and like, three years in a row, of taking the advanced geographicinformation systems classes came in handy because now I’m doing geographical analysisbut from a arts perspective. Super cool. And I guess we’ll go on to our last guest here,Oren. Howdy. Hey! So, what aspects of theater do you focus on? So I’m, I’m very much a uhsort of uh you know, I don’t want to say like I’m a one-trick pony, but like I’m very investedin the arts, not that I don’t have a, a very lifelong interest of science and, and learning,uh but it’s certainly not what I’ve, I’ve pursued in, in higher education, uh becauseI don’t like writing papers and doing lab work.That’s fair. Me neither. It’s, it’s,it is not what I was, it’s not what i was built to do. Uh what I was built to do however,is uh construction and scenic carpentry. Um I, uh I very much I came to the Universityof Guelph with a goal of being a sort of actor and director, and I’ve now exited as of thisMay, uh realizing that while acting is fun and directing is fun, I have a very intenselove of basically being the catalyst by which designers and, and very much like creativehead in the clouds coming up with these amazing ideas, like helping those sort of people realizetheir visions. That is where I’ve sort of found my place and I am very happy with sortof being that catalyst. Right so you know, I, I’ve done some design work and taken somelike drafting classes and stuff like that, but you know, I, I am perfectly comfortablewith the fact that I’m, I’m just much better at helping people realize their own visions.So um mostly I focus on working with woods and building sets and stuff like that, butI’ve dabbled in many other forms of like set construction or uh prop building.All of thatis, is of a lot of interest to me. Using different materials, uh Thomas and I uh uh oh god, it’slike almost two years ago now, uh we uh we got to work on a set where a lot of it wasactually dressed with cardboard, and that was part of the sort of the the design andstuff of the set so yeah. My, my skills very much lie in the, you know, the technical aspectof it, you know. I’ve done some sound. I’ve dabbled in like every, sort of all the thedisciplines of technical theater, but uh yeah scenic carpentry it’s really where I’ve, uhI’ve staked my claim.Is there like a favorite thing that you’ve built or like production,like a set you really loved? Uh the, the, the, Lion in the Streets. The design for thatthat iteration of the play was incredibly challenging and fun, and I got to do so manylike, lots of lathe work, so like turning spindles on a lathe to create a whole pulleysystem, creating a giant like basically eight foot diameter mobile that ran on this custompulley system to spin at certain points of the the play, having fly walls which are basicallyfloating walls that can rise and, and descend uh at different points.Again using differentpulley, and uh, and rigging systems. Um just like so many like challenges and that wasprobably the favorite production I’ve been able to build just because like, it was likeall this cool stuff. You know, a lot of other productions like there’s one or two thingsthat you’re like, oh, that’s really cool. Like we, uh for Millennial Malcontent, whichwas I think in my second year, we had these like market stalls which were, um they rodeon top of pneumatic like pressurized casters, which are basically like wheels and so youbasically flip the switch and a pressurized air container inside would like lift themoff the ground and you could roll them around and then if you flip the switch again it wouldanchor itself to the ground and be unable to move unless you wanted to like tip it over.That, you know, that was fun, but like for Millennial Malcontent.But Lion in the Streets,the entire set was just a joy to build. Um yeah rigging is always fun. You know, whodoesn’t love being like 13, 14, 15 feet in the air uh with the only thing stopping youfrom falling is just like a metal bar between your legs as you lean over the void. Yeah,Lion definitely had a lot of cool like tech and set features and stuff like that. I knowfrom lighting it had some cool moments and stuff like that. The lighting for that was,like every bit of every bit of tech for that show, like all the, the, the costumes, theprops the, the, the uh, the media, like you know *Oren does a chefs kiss*. Funny enough,I actually got my start in theater from uh, like tech.I literally used to be in chargeof the the lighting board at my high school and that’s how I ended up doing uh theatrical,I did all the theaters, and I did all the lighting for them and then I, actually thenthat’s when I was like you know what hell I’m going to go into a, I’m going to get intoa musical so I then, I was in Alice in Wonderland! Nice! Were you Alice? Um I was actually, yeah. No, I was wonderland. I love and actually,uh with, uh being behind the scenes in CCP, I always did my fav, I, I’m not gonna lie,I, I hope this doesn’t hurt you, but my favorite thing was to like, do like set destructionat the end of the day.Oh no no no! You know, you, I’m right there with you. There is nothingmore cathartic than destroying something I’ve built. And it sounds so strange. No. Likeit’s, it’s very different for like, if it was like something personal I built like ifI, you know, like I built a desk I would never want to destroy it but the fact that it’sfor theater, it falls in this weird sort of like gray area where I love strike.I loveleading a strike. I love telling people what to destroy. I love just ripping it apart andthen going and getting shit faced with the rest of the crew. Yeah, literally. It is themost, like it is, it is the, uh like definition of catharsis for me. It’s like all this, likeevery, every like problem, shortcomings, frustrating thing that happened, you get to take all ofthat out and it’s just like resolved in your brain and you’re, oh oh I love strikes! No,everyone, who’s really into like theater and tech, they love strikes because it is yourway to take any bit of frustration out with that production.It allows you to like letit go, you know. I also just love, yeah I remember for one I did, uh I did like a lotof executive work for Sweeney Todd the year that they did it. Oh, that set! *Oren doesa chef kiss* I’m envious for not being able to work on that. That slide? I really wantedto have built that.It was good! It was so cool! but I also was behind the scenes for all ofthe safety stuff. My, one of my good friends was in charge of kind of all of the, um likethe, uh i guess all the the smaller crews. She was in charge of like all of the propscrew and the costume crew and all that kind of stuff, but I just remember, just like the,the all of the things that she had to like make sure everybody was doing because if youhave that extra level, it’s just, it yeah. I remember being in the audience and watchingthat show and I mean, it’s impossible for me to turn off my brain when thinking aboutthat sort of thing, but like honestly half the enjoyment for me of watching theater asan audience member is thinking about how I would go about doing it myself, and I rememberlike what captivated me the most about Sweeney Todd, besides like I mean the singing andyou know Diana Del Rosario is just, what an amazing voice she has. Um how I was castedin it.Oh, yeah, Tommy was casted in it and then, but uh. I was initially casted as thebeadle, but due to uh working time restraints, I, I had to drop from it. Oh really? Yeah.But like thinking about how like, you know, you’d have to make sure that the safety razorwas like so incredibly dull because like they were literally dragging it across people’snecks and if it even had an ounce of, like a hint of sharpness, like you can still ripopen someone’s jugular with it. I don’t know, not to get too morbid, but like that slideyou can like, you, you turn around at the wrong angle, you’re falling off like therewas no railings on it. Like the safety on that show had to have been immaculate, sowhoever your friend was, they did a good job because as far as I know, no one got hurt.Yeah she was uh, she was the props, she got her start as the props director in uh, inHeathers, and uh so she made that paper mache pig, which we ended up lighting on fire atthe cast party which was kind of fun.Went from making that pig to like, literallymaking, or like overseeing like, just like being the all of those hurdles it was nuts,and I painted a lot of those bricks I remember that. I remember painting one of the walls and wedumped a bunch of gross stuff on Mrs. Lovett’s wall. Oh my god, yes, that was so much fun!Yeah! I remember being, how to uh, it was like I think my third year, I was taught howto paint bricks with a roller, so basically like you, you take a roller and you’re ableto like run bricks up a wall with like a single stroke.There’s like a really neat techniqueyou can do to paint like, like dozens of feet of bricks in under an hour. We definitelydidn’t use that. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, I remember seeing the bricks and beinglike, I don’t think they did that. I think they did all those bricks by hand. Yes, wedid, and I destroyed those bricks but yeah, I just, I love that, I’ve always loved the,like the technical sides of theater. Like I remember actually um my godparents are literallyum they’ve, they’ve been uh very very involved with the Peterborough Theater Guild. I grewup in Peterborough. I’ve heard a lot about that. It’s, it’s a really cool, uh yeah organizationthey got there.It’s, it’s incredible and I got to, my, my godfather, I remember heuh, he uh brought me into the lighting booth and I got to learn about all of like, that’swhere I started in lighting which was so cool so um. And then I also did some uh, some likeuh ticket sales and then for some reason that’s how I got into a Curtain Call doing. The admin.Doing front of house. Like that was my first thing but. That’s how we met. Well, that’show we became friends. I would usher for a Curtain Call. Yeah. So. He was hawking tickets,you were hucking people in the seats, you know. How couldn’t you be friends? I justwanted to see the shows for free. That’s fair. I was like I’ll usher, sure. Yeah, twist myarm. Yeah, even though I was never like, I never did theater myself, I’ve always hada great appreciation for it. It’s always like, it’s, it’s one of those things where um youalways hear people say, like my high school was very much like, they poured a lot of moneyinto the arts and it, and it really broke my heart that a ton of my friends were intothe arts, but they were forced by their families to go into sciences or like law or medicine,and even though they’re like these incredible talents.I can literally count on one handthe amount of people I knew from my high school that actually went into the arts and I’m oneof them. Like it’s. Yeah. And, but it, it like it boggles the mind that people who arein these like high science positions, they’re lawyers, they’re doctors, they’re like, theywant you to be successful, these are the kind of people that are like they, they’re richand they enjoy the arts, but heaven forbid their, their, their child goes into the arts.Oh not our child, no they’re gonna be, it’s like but, there’s such a weird disconnectthere and it, I, I, I don’t, I don’t get it.It makes no sense to me. Like if you got thattalent, like society needs art. It is very, it is just as important as, you know, as anythingelse. Once again bringing it back to the pandemic, how are people getting through the pandemic?With Netflix. What is Netflix? Art. Yeah. And with like tv and theatre and stuff likethat. The people who are producing art during the pandemic, you know it’s, it’s, it’s incredible.And weirdly enough to touch on the whole like, oh parents forcing kids to go into science,I was actually a classical double bassist and my parents wanted me to do that, and Iwas like I’m going to do zoology.The opposite thing happened. Don’t tell me what to do mom and dad! I’mgonna go into biology, and they’re like, you’re no daughter of mine! Yeah. You’re gonna bea double bassist and you’ll like it. My school had the worst theater program. We had like,we had zero theater program, and I truly feel like if my high school had a theater program,I would have gone into theater because I loved it so much but I was just not exposed to it.Me being in theater was a, it literally started in grade nine as a fluke, like because youhave to, I don’t know what your high schools were like, but at my high school, I grew upin Scarborough, I, you’re supposed to take like either vocals, uh visual art, or dramaand I wanted to take visual art because I was really obsessed with drawing in like middleschool and I’m like going into grade nine, I’m like oh I’ll take visual art.Visual artwas full and, as being like a barely pre-teen boy, I was like well, I certainly am not doingvocals. My voice is not nearly uh settled enough for that to be possible. So I wentinto drama, got an amazing drama teacher, and uh now I’ve graduated with a bachelorof arts in uh theater studies. Like six years ago, no almost, oh god eight years later.Jesus Christ, oh I don’t like that at all. I feel like that’s how it goes sometimes,the things you’re most passionate about are flukes, like the Carthaginian war elephants,like literally. Exactly. So what’s, what’s your favorite insect Oren. Yes! Oh uh, welluh I’ve had a few people, I, I, uh I love bees.Bees are my thing. I have, for a fewyears now, um not this year unfortunately because the price of wood has skyrocketedand I haven’t been able to actually afford any of it, um but I’ve built uh, I have designsthat I’ve like, I’ve, I’ve designed like bee boxes in the past for Mason bees to keep them.Eventually, when, you know, the price of wood goes down, I’m going to be building bee boxesto keep uh Mason bee females because they are just fantastic pollinators. Um back atmy family home in Scarborough, uh we have a little carpenter bee colony there. Um whenI was younger, I would uh, bumblebees were like the, they would, you know, swarm ourbackyard, and unfortunately it doesn’t happen anymore, and it’s very visible, and it reallybreaks my, my cold little heart that they’re not there.You know what I love about thistoo? You just said a whole bunch of native bees and I love that. Yeah. They don’t getas much love. Yeah, they would, they would land on our uh our beauty bush and I wouldcatch them and I would build little terrariums out of cereal boxes and plastic wrap and Iwould fill them with like all the flowers from my backyard and I would take like twoor three bees at a time and I would introduce them to my little terrariums. To the death.no no no no no, they were all lovely! No.If they started fighting I would immediately,I would cut that shit out. It’s his first theatre set. You would make them do a play.No no no no no. They would basically have like this, likebuffet of flowers I would give them and they would leave and I remember they would justbe so rotund with pollen like just covered in it. Just like twitching from how much pollenand nectar they had and because like bees, like from what I understand, they go backto their hive and they do little dances to tell the rest of their hive about like wherethey’ve like encountered really good supplies of like flower and nectar and pollen, so Iliked too imagine, little little Oren was really convinced that they went back and werelike guys, you’re never gonna believe what’s happened. I got kidnapped by a giant he fedme everything, like more than I could ever eat and then he let me go it’s fuckin crazy.But yeah, I would just, that’s how i spent my summers is I would just like, I would givebees as much pollen as they could, as they could carry and send them on their littlebee, little fluffy butt way.I adore bees. They are my favorite. I will like, I, I, Iconvinced my landlord to let me have a wildflower garden in my backyard just so I can grow pollinatorflowers. I will, yo, I ride or die with bees. They’re my friends. That’s a good choice.Do you like the bee movie? That’s like asking if I like jazz? Yeah! All right, so thankyou all so much for talking a little bit about like the areas you’re working on, or are reallypassionate about. Now we’re gonna move on to the part where I make you make something.The band! Yes, I’m excited to hear the band. Um so I’mgoing to give you about 10 minutes or so to come up with your art piece. It can, likeI said earlier, can be literally anything. It can be your band, if you want it to beyour band. I’ve got my jaw harp ready to. Yeah, you can play me a song, you can uh makea skit, or something if you want, or you can do like a pitch for a play, or any kind ofcreative thing to communicate some of the science that we talked about.Uh so yeah,I’m gonna set a timer. So I’m gonna disappear, and I’m gonna come back in 10 minutes andsee what you got. So I’ll leave you to it. All right, uh who’s the lead singer? *TV cutsound* I don’t know. Thomas and I once had an idea of like dressing a uh an actor upin a sleeping bag and they were like a caterpillar and they would inch their way onto the stageand then someone dressed in a bird outfit would come out and like peck around beinglike they were gonna like like eat the bug and then they would pull out a gun and shootthe bug and then they would pick up the person in the sleeping bag, go into the audience,sit down and inside the sleeping bag would be like fruits, and they would reach in asthe rest of the play went on, while sitting in the audience, and like have a meal.Thisis real. *TV cut sound* I, I think, I think it would be interesting to to somehow combineum the bug day and like the whole idea of uh educating the public how like, I know there’sa lot of negative connotations with insects and like bugs especially like native insects,so like I’m saying native insect the musical. *TV cut sound* Crane flies. Everyone, likeyou know those really big flies that everyone thinks are like male mosquitoes, or like biggiant mosquitoes. Yeah. They’re not, they’re just big dumb dumbs with big legs and they’reactually, they just vibe. They actually. Me. *TV cut sound* Like the entomologists thatare trying to, to, to boost like the awareness of the crane fly but like the crane fly canlike talk with them and can like interact with them.That would be really funny actually.The oral history of the crane fly, the musical, on ice. On ice. Imagine the crane fly in abunch of little skates. What a cutie. Six skates! We would need six skates! Do we have the budget for that? Uh- *TV cutsound* Tommy, do you still have those, those moth wings? *TV cut sound* Tipulilampydopterathe Musical! *TV cut sound* We don’t have to budget for skates for the crane fly, wedon’t have the budget for the kinky boots for the crane fly. Sam you came back at agood time. Sammi! welcome to the, welcome to the, the. Hi! I’m back. Oh my god. Alright,so your time is up. Uh-oh. Show me what you got. All right, well, we don’t have a name.I was thinking, can we quickly like brainstorm a name? Yeah, no, you can think of a name.I was thinking like something like Elmo’s firefly and like the moth’s name is Elmo orI don’t know.I was trying to think of like puns to do with fire. Um uh what are firepuns? When the fire nation attacked? Yeah, everything was okay until uh the fire fly,got, got zapped? That’s not bad. I put my money on Tipulilampydoptera. Yeah, I likethat one too! Because of how outrageously long it is. Yeah, I do enjoy a long unnecessary name.Alright. That’s our name. Perfect. Whatever you name it I will probably makethe episode title. Uh oh! Do we got a pitch for you! So, it’s a musical. On ice. No, it’s not.It’s not. It depends on budget. Well yeah. It depends on whether or not our budget is50 cents and a roll of duct tape or not.Imagine you have as much money as you would like.Oh then it’s on ice. It’s on ice. There’s fire. And there’s five inch heels. Yeah. Yeah.Those are the kinky boots. Yep, um well, it’s a love story about um a beautiful moth whofalls in love with a firefly because they think it’s the moon um and we have a fun uhside character that’s a crane fly.You know the misunderstood crane fly. Yeah that’s actuallylike the the jokey chill prankster of the entomologist world, you know. Uh yeah. That’s it. Uh yeah the moth falls in love with, because it’s like oh wow it’s, it’s like a bright lightsource but it keeps disappearing and then have something where like probably the, thefirefly flies into a bug zapper, and it’s like oh no, or like one of these two capturesit and drowns it in ethanol. Who knows? It’s very educational. It’s very dark, but the crazy character willbe there at the funeral like ahhhhh I’m a crane fly. Very educational when it comesto uh like native Ontario insects. Yes. Good, I love it. There’ll be a giant that keepsscooping up bumblebees for some reason. I guess, this is, we could also have it hostedat the bug day that uh we can go back in person. Full circle. Yeah. Taking literally, justoh yeah. That’s the perfect way to welcome everyone back to bug day.Yeah! Welcome tobug day! Uh we have a musical. Million dollar production. Yeah, we’re gonna get, we’re gonnaget, oh oh who should we cast? As the firefly and the moth? Oh the firefly and the moth?Kevin Hart’s gonna be the Crane Fly. Did you say Kevin Hart? As the crane fly yeah. Ohokay. I don’t hmm okay. well no, he’s not really, I don’t want tosay this, he’s not ,he doesn’t have the long legs to portray the crane fly.Who’s likea massive, like actor? Whose like really big? Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Dwayne the rock Johnsoncould be someone. We’re definitely employing Dwayne the Rock Johnson. He’s the moth. Hejust has tiny little wings on his back. No, he’s the crane fly. He’s the crane fly, withthe tiny wings. Okay, right. Yeah. And then uh yeah I don’t know, I feel like we shouldhave someone like very sweet and soft being the moth. Hugh Jackman can be in it somewhere.Just X-Men. As wolverine. But he plays an actual wolverine that comesin to eat the insects. *Oren makes Wolverine claw slashing sounds*. I don’t know, um Patrick Stewart is the mothand it’s like very Shakespearean. We just getting like these classically trained actorsto portray our stupid bug musical.Would you, I guess would you like to hear our reasoningtoo of why like. I would love to! Who needs reasoning when we got a million dollar idealike this. It just speaks for itself. With bug day, like one of the things thatuh Lauren and I always love about it, is like we’re starting with children, like and we’restarting at young ages, and telling them bugs are good and so it’s like the idea, I thinkthat’s kind of where we spun off of is that kind of just like, also yeah, with the Ontarionative species and talking about kind of the underrated um, what did you call them Laurenagain? Charismatic mesofauna.That’s what I call them. Not them but. Yeah. They’re,they’re the popular, they’re the mean girls of the insect kingdom. Like butterflies, dragonflies,really cool iridescent beetles, like the things that people really care about. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. I think that sounds awesome. Sam says lying as she gets ready to scrapthis entire recording. I just remembered guys, do you know Starkid the ones who made like.Yeah. They have a musical with a bug in it. I’m pretty sure the main character’s nameis bug. Starship. I wanna be a starship ranger. I want to go. I don’t know it’s about spaceexploration and he’s a bug or something. I can get behind that. Bugs in space. I sawit so long ago.I don’t remember. Bugs are, weren’t bugs like one of the first like creaturesto be sent to space? Probably but. I think it was fruit flies to be honest actually.Yeah fruit flies are one of the first things because i remember, i remember they sent likelike uh lizards up with like their tail missing and they’re like, because if lizards can’tregrow their tail in space then like if an astronaut gets a paper cut they’re fucked.Uh like because they didn’t know like, they legitimately didn’t know if space like somehowslowed down healing so they sent out fruit flies and they all died because they’re, wellbecause they’re fruit flies.They weren’t intending to send fruit flies, one of theastronauts had a banana in their pocket. Yeah. So the fruit flies got there first beforethe astronaut. Let’s see if fruit flies will survive this year-long trip uh and the dailylike, the life cycle of fruit flies is three days, and they’re like ah our experiment failedthe fruit flies all died. So we’re almost at about two hours, so I thinkI might wrap it up. But yeah, that’s it for the first episode and thank you all so muchfor being on it. It was a lot of fun! I think we had a lot of like fun conversations.Yeah,thanks for having us. Yes! So before we go though, is there anything any of you wouldlike to promote? Like any social media or websites or anything like that? Gay rights!There you go! I’m just kidding. It’s pride month! Uhhh, bees! Yeah, bees! Gay rightsfor bees! Gay right for bees! If you’re in Ontario, uh London, Ottawa and Guelph, allhave bug days. Um I believe they are all virtual this year but you can check them out. Uh justlook up uh whatever city you’re in bug day and find the nearest one or because they’reall virtual you could just participate in Guelphs. True! Lots of options. I’ll lookup some and put some stuff in the description and stuff as well. Yeah, all right awesome.So thanks again for being here. Thanks for everybody who might be listening. I’m notsure where this will be exactly yet, probably on YouTube and hopefully somewhere else.I’llkind of figure that little bit out, but yeah. It’s going right up on the CBC. Probably not.It’s going up on Broadway baby! Catch that bug musical when it happens. What’s the nameagain? It should be good. Check it out! What did we call it again? What’s the name? Tipulilampydopterathe Musical. Yeah, look for that coming out to Mervish in the next, in September, no nextSeptember. We’re gonna need at least a year to like. Oh you’re gonna need some time yeah.Yeah. Perfect. All right, well thank you so much, and I’ll see you next time! Bye! Thankyou so much Sam! Thank you! Thank you all!.